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| Author | Topic: 90 E-TEC on 15-footer |
| an86carrera |
Here are some numbers [for the performance of an Evinrude E-TEC 90 on a Boston Whaler 15-footer]:
I am very pleased. Plus the quietness and smooth power. The motor looks smaller than the 70 Mercury. Boat floats abot the same too. Pics: Thanks in past for all the info on this site;o) Len |
| an86carrera |
Forgot to give you the prop, it is a 21" SST II OMC prop. It starts to slip a lot near the end of the RPM range. Going to have to get a more aggressive prop. Thinking about a Raker or Renegade or? Educated opinions welcome. Thanks In Advance, Len |
| Peter |
Wow, 35 MPG at slow troll! If you are running the motor high on the transom, you should be using a Raker. SST II is not the right prop. I suggest trying a 20 inch for starters. |
| Tom W Clark |
I recommend a Stiletto 13-1/4" x 19" Advantage I hubbed for BRP, part number 21319. |
| an86carrera |
Tom, With your extensive propeller knowledge, how would you compare the Raker 20" and Stiletto 13-1/4" x 19" Advantage I to the SST II 21"? Thanks, |
| Tohsgib |
I have a 14x20 Advantage 1 but it has 15 spline hub. |
| ratherwhalering |
Seriously Tom? I think the Stiletto Advantage I 13.25 x 17 will be better. He's a little low on the RPM range. I'm thinking he should try propping the boat so it hits the 5500 rpm max. |
| an86carrera |
I can hit near 5500 but the slippage seems to increase alot. I would not call it cavitation. Speed increases up to 5500 rpm but only to 49.5 mph. I don't think this prop has enough bite(terminology?) at rpms above the 4800 rpms it turns to do 45mph. I could be wrong? Len |
| an86carrera |
The SST II is 12-3/4" x 21" and brand new. I new this prop would not be correct for the engine height I would run but I thought it was a good starting point for the $45 I paid for it. These props are not made to run as high as the Raker. Len |
| Tom W Clark |
Rob, In this thread Len reports 5150 RPM at 47 MPH, so I think the 19" Advantage I is the ticket, not the 17". Len, I have no personal experience with the Raker, but I think you should try it to see what happens. I am curious. Rob and I have both donated props for testing on both his E-TEC 90 powered Montauk and a 15 foot Whaler with a 75 HP E-TEC. The props were a 15" Advantage I and a 17" OMC SST. The RPMs were very comparable even with the two inch discrepancy in nominal pitch, this is why I think the 19" Advantage I will work for you. There is no question but the Stiletto will tolerate a higher mounting height and grip better. It may not be much faster than your SST as rigged now, but if you can dial in you're mounting height (read: raise the motor), the Advantage I will be happier, you will have less drag and more speed. The SST will not work with higher mounting heights; it will simply start to ventilate. I would be very interested to hear reports of a head-to-head test between the Raker and the Advantage I ( hint, hint ) |
| 15ft90hp |
Len, Were you running a Laser-II 13.5 X 22 on the 70 Merc with good results? I was wondering if it could be re-hubbed so you could try it and to see what kind of numbers it gets. Your new motor really looks great on your boat! Matt |
| an86carrera |
I am looking for a used raker 20". Maybe we can do the comparison;o) The wife thinks I am crazy now with all the props I have. I do have a 22" Laser II I was running with the 70hp Mercury I could get a hub kit but the hub itself would have to be modified it is too large by ~1/8" diameter, maybe I'll do that, I do have access to a lathe. Remember though, that gear ratio is different 2.33/1 on the Mercury vs 2.0/1 on the E-TEC. I am raising the motor on the hydraulic jack plate as right now I can run it all the way up without loosing water pressure, I am probably going to highest mounting height in the lowest hole hole on the motor. Right now it is mounted one hole down on the motor I have two more to go which is 1 1/2" higher. This will allow me to run in shallower water, at least at idle. Thanks for the comment on the looks, everyone who has seen it in person thinks it looks like a better fit than the Mercury...smaller. Len |
| ratherwhalering |
O.K., guys, some very good points, but hear me out. I think that if Len is able to spin a 21-inch prop, but it's venting at higher RPM, then he should try a prop with aggressive cupping, such as the Stiletto. If he makes a lateral move (based on our research I expect the 13.25 x 19 Stiletto to act much like a 21-inch SST but with better grip) it may be too much propeller. She'll hold on, but he'l only get 5200ish RPM. Of course he'll be haulin' the mail. If he keeps with the aggressive pitch, and drops the diameter, then he'll probably hit around 5500 with very little slip. The problem being that Len may be limited in top speed due to the lower nominal pitch of the Stiletto. It'll snap your neck out of the hole, but the top-end torque of the E-TEC 90 seems to be a little shy after 5200 RPM, in my experience, and therefore a propeller with a lower pitch might be the ticket to exploiting this. |
| Tom W Clark |
Yeah, yeah. Rob, put your prop where your mouth is. I say you should send Len a 17" Advantage I, I will send Len a 19" Advantage I and Len puts up a 20" Raker. Winner takes all ;-) |
| ratherwhalering |
O.K., I'll bite. We both send Len a prop, but let's keep it friendly...how about the loser pays restock and shipping? |
| Tom W Clark |
Game on. Len, you on board with this? |
| an86carrera |
I have not found the Raker yet but I am interested in trying these props. I want the best handling prop and would like to achieve over 50 mph reliably with two people on board. I have achieved 45 with three persons (about 420lbs total) on board Sunday evening. Do you guys want to go up against a 20" Renegade? I found one of those and should have it next week. Still looking for the Raker also, I will find one soon. My I-Command gauge will make the comparison easy. Do we need a independent judge I think the Judge will be available. I have only two days of work next week, Monday and Tuesday. Are you up for the job Nick? I'm in, |
| seahorse |
Getting much over 50 I think would be a stretch. Don't overlook the 19" Viper for your rig. As long as your tach is accurate, the Viper should put your motor near its sweet spot and it always outperforms the SST II. |
| an86carrera |
Seahorse, so think the Viper should be in the running. I had not considered that one, although I do have it on the Ficht, I am not running that motor on a jack plate. I was looking at the bass boat props thinking they were made to run high. How would you compare the OMC props? Benefits or strong points of each? Len |
| EIKNIB |
forget about the props, that is one good looking rig. I looked at the pictures for a long time. When you get to be my age, a rig like that is almost as good as looking at a hot looking woman. LOL rich |
| Tohsgib |
Yeah as long as I get to drive....smaller prop should yield a higher MPH even though you break redline. Don't mind me...I'm Still F***ing with that guy and his 1968 13's. |
| an86carrera |
Thanks rich, I guess you have completely dropped the capitalization;o) len |
| Peter |
The V6 Viper props tend to produce good top speeds but don't seem to cruise as efficiently as come other propellers, like the Mirage or Rebel, neither of which you can use on a 20 inch 90 E-TEC. |
| Tom W Clark |
As far as I can discern, the Viper is nothing more than a polished SST. I do not see how it could "...always outperforms the SST II" Len - Send me an email with your shipping address and phone number. |
| Tom W Clark |
"I want...to achieve over 50 mph reliably with two people on board. " Well OK, maybe. But not with Nick onboard! Dream on. No way José. Ain't happening. Fuggedaboudit. |
| Tohsgib |
I add ballast! Bullshit has been used for ballast for centuries ya know. That is actually where the word SHIT came from ya know. It stood for Ship High In Transit because if it was shipped down in the hold and got wet/damp...it would catch fire...compost101 for all you CWer's. |
| Tohsgib |
Now Len REALLY knows why I never go swimming ;) |
| EIKNIB |
Len, I didn`t forget to capitilaze, my hired post and and thread writer started typing in the middle of a sentance I was dictating. We try to adhere to the strict writing rules here, and to always use good english words rich |
| an86carrera |
Nick, that is why I picked you as judge and co-pilot. I wanted a full load test;o) And since you don't like the water I knew you would make every effort not to flip it. Len |
| ratherwhalering |
That's pretty funny, Nick, we a phobia in common. People who know me are shocked that I hate the water. I'm a serious sailor, avid fisherman, and whaler enthuisast. I explain that I love being ON the water, not in it :-) |
| an86carrera |
I am ready for the prop testing. The GPS receiver is installed and I have set-up a page on the I-Command with RPMs, Speed, Engine Load, and MPG. So now all pertinate data is displayed at once, it will make collecting data easy for Nick;) I have three more props on the way: Len |
| an86carrera |
My wife thinks I have a propeller fetish. I also put the engine on the computer today and changed it over to run XD100 oil which I put in from the start. The E-TEC system software works very well on my PDA (Garmin iQ3600) and I printed a report. Len |
| seahorse |
quote:
The Viper has gone through several redesigns since it was introduced many years ago. |
| ratherwhalering |
Len, you can count me in after Clark's prop fails horribly...Actually I spoke with Tom, and our conversation made me a little nervous. Nervous enough to wait and see :-) |
| Tom W Clark |
seahorse, So has the SST. For every Viper made today, there seems to be an identical (but for polishing) SST model. Correct me if I am wrong. I would be very interested to hear the precise details of the differences between, say, a 13-7/8 x 19" Viper, part #763931 and a 13-7/8" x 19" SST, part #176573. |
| seahorse |
IF I remember correctly, the Viper has a swept-blade design which is different from the soon-to-be-discontinued SST prop. Somewhere I may have some test info comparing the 2 props, it may take a while to find. |
| Tom W Clark |
Rob, I was going to post something snide, but in searching the internet for some way to type an emoticon representing a chicken making clucking sounds, I came up empty. Let me simply call you: "chicken" |
| Butterboy |
I think you may be looking for the 20 Raker for some time....... If I remember correctly it's been quite a while since that was made and its definetly not made now. Remember, the older props are using the rubber hub sedign while the newer ones are using the TBx core design. Also on thenew Raker II theres 5/8" vent holes while the older rakers had , I believe 1/4 " vnetes. Just here to help.... sort of EO |
| Peter |
20 inch Rakers are still made in the V4 size which is what the E-TEC 90 needs. |
| jimh |
Some people like to sell short OMC propellers, particularly performance propellers. My thinking on this was being heavily influenced by some of the dock-talk I was hearing on the topic. However, I got a good jolt of reality from John Tiger in Bass and Walleye Boat magazine. In his long series of articles about restoration of an older bass boat--which were great reading all winter--he finally got around to propeller testing. After many tweaks with engine mounting height, set back dimension, and testing a large assortment of custom "bass boat" propellers from a propeller expert, the lowly old OMC RAKER that was the original propeller on the boat was just about the fastest propeller tested. I think they finally did beat it by about a tenth of a mile per hour with some $1,000 custom tweaked wheel. Now some of the other propellers did seem to give different results in terms of acceleration or holding in turns, but it a straight line speed test that old RAKER was faster than all but one of the fancier (and much more expensive) propellers. |
| Teak Oil |
I think the 20" Raker would work great on your rig, I have one on my Montauk with a jack plate. I get 47mph at 5300 with just me in the boat. On your smaller lighter rig it should get right around 5500. Dont be afraid to play with the motor height, I was able to run my Raker a lot higher than I could my previous prop. Run the engine as high as you can before your speed stop increasing, then bring it down about a 1/4" |
| Teak Oil |
Beautiful rig by the way |
| an86carrera |
I will start testing the props this week. I received Tom's Stilletto last night and am off the next 5 days. Just need good weather. Len |
| Tohsgib |
You got GREAT weather. Took the dog out in the 13' last night...beautifull. |
| an86carrera |
Working on the 19' this morning, what are you doing? |
| Tom W Clark |
Well? |
| ratherwhalering |
We're waiting.. (cluck, cluck, cluck) |
| where2 |
Len, when you get your mind made up, I'm interested in that 12-3/4"x21" SST if it will fit a 1985 OMC 70Hp (midsize gearcase). That in the water shot really makes me consider repowering with a 75 Etec... (gotta wait until the wife gets out of grad school). Did you put the battery and the fuel tank in your center console to get that weight balance? |
| an86carrera |
Yes the battery and 18 gal fuel tank is in the console, If you check out my homepage there is a series of photos showing the console construction. Len |
| Tohsgib |
Where...are you sure you can spin a 21"? Your redline is 5500, what are your numbers now? |
| an86carrera |
I can spin the 22" Raker but I think the problem is bow lift. Starts to chine walk at about 51mph due to the bow rising need to raise motor and try with less trim to reach redline. Will probably run out of water at the intake though so any ideas on a prop with less bow lift characterists? I'm not sure how to get there I am off to Italy tomorrow so will not have boat in water untill next Sunday, what are you doing? Len |
| zotcha |
Nothern Italy, I presume? Have a great time and say hello to Margit for us. Michael. |
| an86carrera |
Michael, Of course, northern Italy, Going to Lake Garda for a few days though, that will be a nice deviation from the usual German/Italian Alpine cuisine to some real dining pleasure. The Valpolicella vineyards are nice to eat at. The Verona area, which includes Lago di Garda has some of the best food and wines. Did you get the e-mail about Pierce? Do you use their trucks? Margit says hi to the SC guys. Len |
| Bluejay15 |
I like the Rakers. When I am running WOT my bow is also high. Until I had the engine height dialed in my 15 also walked. Raise the engine. I have my middle water intake even with the “pad.” What kind of steering are you using? |
| an86carrera |
It is high but I can go up on the hydraulic jack plate two more holes. I am going to try that when I get back. See the pics I am running it at the max height. Len |
| Bluejay15 |
I can't really tell where the intakes are in the pics. The engine does look high. It looks like you are using some kind of hydrolic steering. Is it nice, tight and smooth? |
| an86carrera |
Yes I forgot, it is very tight hydraulic steering. Len |
| Bluejay15 |
That’s good. I know if the hydraulic system is not bleed correctly it can have an uneven feeling to it. This may become more noticeable in this case where the performance boundaries are being pushed. Also check where the cylinder connects to the steering arm. The Sea Star system which I am accustomed to looks completely different then what you have so I cannot be any help here. Steering and having a low center of gravity plays a very critical role in chine walking. |
| an86carrera |
Good points. I'll watch for that. Len |
| Tohsgib |
I was talking to Where2 Len but thanks for asking. Might be at BC on Saturday weather permitting. |
| Tom W Clark |
Jeez, I sent an expensive stainless steel propeller to the guy for testing and he leaves the country. That's it. No more special deals for friends of Nick! |
| Tohsgib |
First off that would be the first special deal for ME or any of my friends ;) Need a 14x20 stiletto??? 2) At least he made it home! 3) Yeah...what gives on those performance figures???? 4) Notice the ;) in the first paragraph??? 5) Need a 14x20 Siletto??? |
| 15ft90hp |
It was a nice long weekend, did you get out on the water with your new rig? |
| an86carrera |
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/an86carrera/PropChart.jpg Here is some data that has been collected today. Conditions were ~80º air and ~80º water, cross wind of 15-20 mph carrying 9 gallons of fuel, 50 lbs of lead (in anchor locker, mistakenly not removed) and two passengers weighing 260 total. The engine was not moved vertically during the test. Only trim was adjusted over 4000 rpm. The variabilities within the adjustments available with hydraulic trim are difficult to keep up with. Driving this boat at speed is not a leisurely activity when trying to hold certain rpms and take notes. I must give credit to wife Margit for data collection and the graphing. Opinions as always please. Len |
| Tom W Clark |
Len, Once again we see that the OMC SST design is an excellent one. In this case the 21" SST and the 19" Stiletto Advantage I perform very nearly the same (and is also why you often see me recommending the Advantage in pitches of about two inches less than what most people expect). However, once you start raising your motor you will quickly realize that the SST will start to ventilate and loose grip while the Stiletto Advantage I will hold on and become even faster. That is the big difference between them. |
| zotcha |
Len, am I missing something here? According to your chart, you have not broken 50 mph? Granted, I can't find a rider who enjoys this either, but? I have not even accurately recorded my F60 since the Garmin 545s, but plan to this weekend minus PITA, the old PATE with about 4 gallons of emergeny fuel, and an old OMC 6 gallon rolling around aft. My new aluminum custom tank came in at 19 gallons, under rear thwart, and primed. Don't even want to tell you the price, same company as my 20 gal. in the skiff, 5 years ago...Holy Crap! Have a great weekend. zot. |
| ratherwhalering |
Len, excellent data! Thank you for taking the time and effort to put this together. I agree with Tom that the Stiletto will have more 'grip' once you raise the motor, and you will see higher top speed. Looks like I'll have to eat some crow on the 17-inch Stiletto recomendation. |
| an86carrera |
Zotcha, This data was taken with the wife in the boat who does not like to get on the edge. She does like it at 45mph or so but only in calm weather. The highest I have seen alone is 51.5 mph. I am pretty happy with that but would still like to do it with two people on board. Not finished yet with the boat. I might have hit it without the lead that is in the locker. Will retry this weekend for a top end run without the lead Len |
| Tom W Clark |
Len, The data you've collected all stops at 5500 RPM. I would be interested to know the ultimate WOT RPM of those props. |
| fno |
I knew that wasn't Nick in the boat with your 260 pounds total crew. At first I thought you sent him out alone in your boat;-) |
| PeteB88 |
Len - kill switch Bro, connect it. |
| an86carrera |
Tom, Stilletto ran 52.2 tonight @5600rpm. It was just me on the boat without the 50 lbs of lead up front. I need to raise the engine more to cut back on the bow lift caused by trimming the motor out to get the revs. Another couple of inches higher will get the revs and keep the boat more level, I think. Len |
| Tom W Clark |
Len, Wow! Yes, raise that motor but I think you may have a problem with the prop. You are already above the redline and will only gain more once the motor is raised. The E-TEC 90 redlines at 5500 RPM but is actually happy if propped a bit lower. The factory recommends this for the E-TEC 90: Recommended WOT Range - 4500-5500 Optimum WOT Range -- 5000-5200 Incredible as it may sound, I think you should try the 21" Stiletto Advantage I |
| where2 |
Nice numbers Len... You done with that 12-3/4"x21" SST yet? Nick, the old 70Hp with my skinny self (140lbs) in the boat wraps the tach above 6k running my 13-1/4"x19" stainless OMC elephant ear. Granted, I have some wonders about the accuracy of the tach, but she's doing 44mph (GPS) at that point... It seems to correspond to my ~9% slip that I see on my 13-1/4x17 prop which tops out at 38mph with 2 people in the boat and the tach burried. I realize I wouldn't be going water skiing with the 21" pitch prop. It's tough enough to get some folks up with the 17" pitch. ;) I've just always been curious how fast a 15_sport will go with my 70Hp and my skinny self in the boat. |
| Tohsgib |
Have it double cupped for a few bucks...you'll see 46. |
| an86carrera |
Where2, I'll let you know when I'm done with it. I have not finished testing. Your first. len |
| Tohsgib |
Yeah...if you could have kept your companions from bitching...you might have got some time on her last weekend :) |
| an86carrera |
Nick, That is true in many ways. |
| Tohsgib |
Double meaning that was not intentional but I feel your pain. Get a new phone yet? How is my remote coming along? |
| an86carrera |
Yes I did. |
| zotcha |
Did you receive the South Cackalacki digits along with the Pierce information? zot. |
| an86carrera |
zotcha I did |
| where2 |
I've had the 13-1/4"x19" rehubbed and recupped. Granted, not double cupped, but I have always been curious what OMC thought would run that 21" pitch wheel. It's always beein in their catalog. Short of building my own hydroplane, what else is lighter than a 15_Sport with a 140lbs driver? Besides, you've seen my setup Nick. Every time you see it, you mumble "Oughta raise that engine 2" off the transom"... *grin* |
| Tohsgib |
I could have ran that 21" on mine and would have needed it or even a 22" if the engine redlined at 5500 like the pre 86's. My 19" was made into a 20-21". I had a 15 w/70 Rude and she would turn 5700 with a 23" alum. |
| crabby |
Just to add fuel to this discussion, while gassing up tonite a guy pulled into the local Hess station with a 15 footer on a trailer with a 90 hp Merc on the back. I had to ask how it ran and he told me it does 63 on the gps. My response was "What about chine walking?" to which he replied "You can't do that speed ALL the time!". This rig looked pretty, was set up as a super sport, and he said the prop was a 26 inch pitch. No bracket, but the motor was up about three holes. Bottom paint. And he crowed that he loved to run out on the flats along with all the speed boats with his crab net and fishing poles flying in the rod holders. I wish I had a camera for you folks. Seen tonite at the Hess station in Lindenhurst, LI, NY. I'll be looking for him in the future as this is my playground. |
| an86carrera |
Mercurys probably do have better top end but 63 is doubtful without hull mods and more hp. Len |
| Tohsgib |
No way, not a chance, can't happen! 53 maybe but NEVER 63 with a 90hp. |
| crabby |
I won't argue with you guys, I was just reporting what he told me. I should have suggested he find his way to this forum. |
| Tohsgib |
I know...just want people to know that if the drop an extra 20hp on their 15's they are not going to gain 20mph. |
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