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ContinuousWave: Post-Classic Whalers
170 Montauk: Weight on Trailer
|Author||Topic: 170 Montauk: Weight on Trailer|
posted 10-05-2004 11:17 AM ET (US)
What is the weight of a 170 Montauk with four-stroke Mercury 90-HP, including the trailer?
I'm trying to figure out how much truck I need to pull my boat and a small truck camper and haven't had time to take mine to the CAT scales. (See thread on pulling Whalers with RVs.)
I know the boat weighs about 1,680 lbs and the motor 385 lbs but don't know how much the trailer weighs. I'm also assuming that the factory balanced the rig correctly so that 10% of the weight in the tongue. Has anybody verified this?
posted 10-07-2004 01:01 PM ET (US)
I'm not sure how accurate the bathroom scale method is, but I got a consistent 207 lbs. of tongue weight. I am under the impression that boat and 4 Stroke 90 are a bit under 2000 lbs.
posted 10-07-2004 03:04 PM ET (US)
I think the correct weight on the 170 is 1400 pounds.
posted 10-08-2004 09:38 AM ET (US)
I stand corrected. The Whaler website lists the dry weight of the 170 Montauk at 1400 lbs. Therefore it makes sense that the total weight with trailer and motor would be just under 2000 lbs. The tonge feels lighter than 200, though. Maybe they didn't account for the difference in weight of the 4S when balancing the trailer at the factory.
posted 10-08-2004 09:53 AM ET (US)
I've gone over this a few times. Here is what I think roughly:
Total weight fueled probably closer to 2500 to 2600lbs. Jim
posted 10-10-2004 10:55 AM ET (US)
The Appx. weight of the Karavan trailer packaged w/the 170 is less than 500 Lbs.
posted 10-10-2004 12:20 PM ET (US)
The EZLoader site lists a similar trailer at a little over 550lbs. Interesting that the Karavan is lighter.
posted 10-10-2004 01:41 PM ET (US)
Barney's estimate is the minimum. Keep in mind that 1400 lbs is the hull weight without options, and without battery or batteries.
I'd count on 3,000 lbs coming out of the truck's Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR), and the 250-300 lbs tongue weight coming out of the truck's Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), and with an extended hitch, 400 lbs coming out of the truck's rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR).
posted 10-10-2004 02:00 PM ET (US)
My approximate Montauk 170 weights:
posted 10-10-2004 11:13 PM ET (US)
My 2004 MONTAUK 170, with a KARAVAN trailer, a 115hp EFI 4 stroke MERCURY (24-lbs heavier than the 90-HP four-stroke), loaded with gear, and 12 gallons of fuel, was 2250-lbs. on certified scales.
posted 10-12-2004 08:08 AM ET (US)
One 170 MONTAUK weighs 2,250 lbs.
Another weighs 3,627 lbs.
That is a difference of 1,377 lbs.!
Even subtracting the 500-lb allowance for the passengers, that is still quite a variation.
posted 10-12-2004 08:53 AM ET (US)
I think the difference is attributable to the fact that WT apparently carries a full bait tank and 3 passengers (and 3(!) batteries) in his or her Montauk when it is on the trailer. ;)
posted 10-12-2004 04:53 PM ET (US)
Note that WT also carries his car's 22 gallons of gas in the boat ;-)
Seriously, though, the things he added against the boat weight, like people and the car's gas, do come out of the manufacturer's "towing capacity."
posted 10-12-2004 05:34 PM ET (US)
Aquanut - Mercury's specs don't show the 115 EFI to be heavier than the 90. They show all three, 75, 90 & 115 at 386 #. An I missing something here?
posted 10-12-2004 06:08 PM ET (US)
My guess is that you will need a truck that has a towing capacity of at least 5000 pounds for your setup. A truck with a 5000 pound towing capacity is "empty", any weight that you add to the truck or trailer is subtracted from the towing capacity(Like your camper shell). If you have to tow up hills or mountains then you will need an even larger towing capacity.
I forgot to add in the beer.
posted 10-12-2004 06:20 PM ET (US)
Ok I'm confused, that is why I started this thread:
TOW RATING -- The manufacturer's rating of the maximum weight limit that can safely be towed by a particular vehicle. Tow ratings are related to overall trailer weight, not trailer size, in most cases. However, some tow ratings impose limits as to frontal area of the trailer and overall length. Tow ratings are determined by the vehicle manufacturer according to several criteria, including engine size, transmission, axle ratio, brakes, chassis, cooling systems and other special equipment.
GCWR (Gross Combination Weight Rating) -- The maximum allowable weight of the combination of tow vehicle and trailer/ fifth-wheel, or motorhome and dinghy. It includes the weight of the vehicle, trailer/fifth-wheel (or dinghy), cargo, passengers and a full load of fluids (fresh water, propane, fuel, etc.).
I read that stuff on the tow vehicle comes out of the GCWR not the tow rating. Jim
posted 10-12-2004 06:41 PM ET (US)
Perhaps I am confused too.
But, if your tow vehicle has a tow capacity of let's say 4000 pounds and six 300 pound linemen get into your tow vehicle. How much can you tow on your trailer? I'm guessing that it will be 4000-1800=1200 pounds.
posted 10-12-2004 07:05 PM ET (US)
WT, Here is my guess on how that would work. I think that things in the tow vehicle are applied to the GCWR. So hypothetically it would go like this:
Start with the tow vehicle,
Assume GCWR of tow vehicle is 8000lbs. So 8000 lbs less 5420 lbs of tow vehicle with linemen and gas which leaves 2580 lbs that I can tow out of the 4000, things on the boat and trailer.
OR another example
Assume 3500 lbs curb weight, 120 lbs for 20 gallons of gas, 300 lbs for 2 people or 3920 lbs total loaded weight of tow vehicle.
Assume GCWR of tow vehicle is 8000 lbs. So 8000 lbs less 3920 lbs of tow vehicle with linemen and gas which leaves 4080 lbs that I can tow out of the 4000 lbs. Even though it is higher I'm still limited to the 4000 lbs.
posted 10-12-2004 07:26 PM ET (US)
Yep. You are right. My figures are off.
posted 10-12-2004 07:38 PM ET (US)
WT, I'm hoping someone will confirm this for us. Jim
posted 10-12-2004 10:03 PM ET (US)
Barney is right. Truck, trailer, boat, your wife's Kleenex
above the visor, EVERYTHING, can't exceed GCWR.
In addition, there's GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating = tow vehicle and everything in it, but not the trailer), and GAWR
Some actual numbers:
'01 Nissan Pathfinder, manual transmission:
But not that options affect things. Just because your
posted 10-12-2004 10:14 PM ET (US)
> In addition, there's GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating = tow vehicle and everything in it, but not the trailer)
Part of the trailer, the tongue weight, must come out of the GVWR.
The GVWR will not exceed the sum of the front and rear axle GAWR, but it might be less than that due to limitations other than the axles.
Getting back to the question about towing capacity being less than GCWR minus actual weight. It's rare that happens, since towing capacity is calculated as GCWR minus the lightest possible configuration of the vehicle. Where it does happen is when the hitch rating is less than GCWR minus actual weight. That occurs especially with 3500 lb Class II hitches, but it also occurred with some 3/4 and 1 ton trucks who's large engines and low gear ratios provided a high GCWR, but the manufacturer supplied hitch receiver was only rated 10,000 lbs.
posted 10-13-2004 10:21 AM ET (US)
WT your always factual and up to date.
I mis stated [I do that often the more two stroke oil smoke ingest, and the foggin oil causes memory failure] its that time of year] maybe its the stabil fuel additive I keep putting in my coffee at work...but it keeps me regular.
anyway..the 155 EFI is 24lbs heavier than the opti...funny tho if you hold the carbs off the 90's in one hand..the efi unit in the other...the efi feels much heavier.
I am native american paiute/pawnee...eagle-eye I won't forget..lol
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