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Author Topic:   Engine replacement: Montauk 170

SC Joe posted 02-26-2009 10:40 PM ET (US)
Has anyone changed out the original Mercury FOURSTROKE for an E-TEC of the same power on [a Boston Whaler 170 MONTAUK]?
What was the result? Was there a noticable difference?
SC Joe posted 02-26-2009 11:24 PM ET (US)
After reading this link: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ratedHP.html , I have calculated the maximum horsepower that can be put on a Montauk 170 to be 142.22.
Online I have seen 90 hp to be the maximum hp rated for the Montauk 170, but I have not seen that listed in the boat (Although it cold be and I don't remember it). The only maximum engine size I have seen in the boat is listed as "Maximum engine weight 410 pounds".
The Evinrude E-TEC 90, 115, and 130 weigh approximately 320#, 375# and 390# (respectively). Knowing these things, could one put an E-TEC 130 hp on a Montauk 170?
Negating my first question..has anyone done this?
swist posted 02-27-2009 07:02 AM ET (US)
It's under a tarp for the winter, but I'm petty sure my Montauk 170's capacity plate says max 90 hp. If that were not the ca4e, there wouldn't have been so many discussions in this forum on the viability/legality of putting a bigger engine on, even though many felt the boat could handle it.
Casco Bay Outrage posted 02-27-2009 08:59 AM ET (US)
Joe -
There have been many articles on the subject of maximum horsepower rating of a Montauk 170. I recall several members who have re-powered. I do not recall a specific re-power with an E-TEC.
While it is early and I am only on my 3rd cup of coffee, I will say Barney was the first to repower, trading in his Mercury (with Yamaha powerhead) 90 for a 115.
This occurred sometime around 2002 or 2003. I think he has sold the boat.

Casco Bay Outrage posted 02-27-2009 09:07 AM ET (US)
Dohhh! it wasn't Barney, but Ray (Tabasco)!
See this page for a great article and photos.
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage58.html
(Next time I will wait till my 4th cup before posting)
SC Joe posted 02-27-2009 09:44 AM ET (US)
Thanks Casco for that reference. It appears the original owner of Tabasco [was not satisfied] with the carburetor 90-HP Mercury. After owning only fuel-injected engines on my boats for the last five years, that is understandable.
I was wondering about it from a weight savings and possible torque gain perspective. As for the Coast Guard tag, I'll have to look at the one in my boat to see what it says.
I wonder of there is any noticeable power or "out of the hole" increase with an E-TEC 90 HP engine over the Mercury 90 HP FOURSTROKE, just due to the 79-lbs in weight savings? In reality, however, that really equals the weight of a large trolling motor battery.
Has anyone done a four stroke to E-TEC conversion on a similar boat and noticed any real differences?
*This all stems from marketing DVD I apprently signed up for at our local boat show a few weeks back. Evinrude DOES have quite a convincing marketing department :).
I doubt I'd spend the money necessary to make any changes now to my boat that has 15 hours on it, but perhaps in a few years...
Casco Bay Outrage posted 02-27-2009 12:19 PM ET (US)
For those that have not been privy to the [problems] with the Mercury 90-HP with Yamaha powerhead, it has been discussed heavily. Due to the small orifices in the carburetors, lack of use and infrequent carburetor cleaning led to clogging. Once owners were educated, the frequency of reported problems dramatically decreased.
I don't think the problems with this motor speaks to all carburetor fueled four stroke motors, rather just this one model.
The engine stated is not the L4NA "Veraditio" and was rigged on Montauk 170's for only a few years starting in 2002.
As for the repower, I recall Ray stating the weight of the 115 was the same as the 90 hp motor.
Tohsgib posted 02-27-2009 12:54 PM ET (US)
When I was repowering my 13' with a used 30-40hp 4 stroke I was looking at all brands. In my research I read that many had problems with the carburated 4 strokes now with the ethanol BS. That ruled out many engines for me and left me with just Mercury, Johnson/Suzuki in the EFI engines. I know that now most 2008 or 2009's are EFI but I was going used. Going EFI also raises the weight but I find a little more weight is better than cleaning carbs every 3 months. I don't use the 13' that often so EFI was important to me...plus it is so smooth and easy to start. Just hope nothing breaks on it. So in a nutshell, the carbed 4 strokes have problems due to ethanol accross the board just like 2 smokes.
WT posted 02-27-2009 01:54 PM ET (US)
I'm guessing it would cost around $2,000 to swap from a used 90 Mercury to a new 90 E-TEC. I'm not sure if any improvements in hole shot would be worth the $2,000. Call your dealer for a ballpark quote, I'd be curious for the quote.
One cheaper alternative if you're looking for a better hole shot might be to swap out props for specific activities or uses of your 170 Montauk.
Warren
Brian7son posted 02-27-2009 03:01 PM ET (US)
Joe,
"The Evinrude E-TEC 90, 115, and 130 weigh approximately 320#, 375# and 390# (respectively). Knowing these things, could one put an E-TEC 130 hp on a Montauk 170?"
If I were you and if I did that. I'd buy a 90 E-TEC decal and slap in on the 130 cowling just to try avoid any potential hassles with law enforcement. It's not like the 130 is a huge motor that would make it glaringly obvious that you swapped labels.
SC Joe posted 02-27-2009 07:27 PM ET (US)
>>>I'm guessing it would cost around $2,000 to swap from a used 90 Mercury to a new 90 E-TEC. I'm not sure if any improvements in hole shot would be worth the $2,000. Call your dealer for a ballpark quote, I'd be curious for the quote.
One cheaper alternative if you're looking for a better hole shot might be to swap out props for specific activities or uses of your 170 Montauk.<<<
That's about how much I thought as well. I actually stopped by my dealer today for something else and although they sell E-TECs, they do not stock any unless someone specifically asks for one. I did not get a chance to ask for a quote.
To your other point...the hole shot now isn't really that bad. I was just suckered in by clever marketing. It would have to be VERY good deal to make me really want to do anything.
chuck21401 posted 02-27-2009 08:29 PM ET (US)
SC Joe:
I have the same boat. What don't you like about the 90 fourstroke?
Chuck
SC Joe posted 02-27-2009 10:13 PM ET (US)
The color? :)
And...the weight.
frontier posted 02-28-2009 01:57 AM ET (US)
Put on a new Yamaha 90 HP 2-Stroke.
2009 may be the last year it is available.
The cheapest, lightest (261#) and the best quality.
L H G posted 02-28-2009 05:45 PM ET (US)
My prediction is that anyone who repowers a 170 Montauk from a Mercury 2-stroke 90 or L4NA 4-stroke Merc 90 (Verado powerhead) to a Yamaha 2-stroke 90 or E-tec 90 will be hugely disappointed.
The current Mercury 90 being installed on the 170's is the most powerful 90 you can buy, period. Remember that block can put out up to 200HP with blower. Look at Whaler's published top speed figure of 46 MPH with this engine. Neither the 82HP Yamaha 90 or E-tec 90's will do nothing close to that speed, probably more like 40 at best. Several owners here with Yamaha and E-tec 90's on classic Montauks report top speeds of only 42 MPH, and the newer 170's are much heavier.
All that being said, I would sure like to see someone re-power a 170 Montauk with an E-tec 90 and tell us how it does on both fuel economy and top speed, before he shoots himself, that is!
SC Joe posted 03-04-2009 10:21 PM ET (US)
According to Jimh's comparison here: [/url]http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/compare90.html[/ur/], (and I wish I knew Jimh's arcane chosen HTML here for italics)theoretically, the E-TEC should be a better before...without even factoring the weight difference.
Tohsgib posted 03-04-2009 11:17 PM ET (US)
I would love to see a 170 doing 46mph with a 90hp.....show me please. My 19 Revenge at 250lbs more and a 140hp would only do 43ish.
WT posted 03-05-2009 02:18 AM ET (US)
I'd bet that a new 170 Montauk with the motor moved up 2 holes from stock could hit 46 mph. My heavy 170 Montauk can hit 44 mph and my AV plate isn't completely out of the water while on plane.
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/005235.html
My experience is that the Mercury ELPT FourStroke (Veradito) is a lot stronger than my old Mercury/Yamaha carbureated 90 4 stroke.
Warren
nemored posted 03-05-2009 07:17 AM ET (US)
Get the new Honda 90hp. It is by far the best motor out there.
SC Joe posted 03-05-2009 11:00 AM ET (US)
With less than 15 hours on my '08 170 with 90 Merc, I got 44 mph out of it. I feel certain given a little more break in time, the right waves and no wind, I could get another mile an hour or two from it.
GSH posted 03-06-2009 01:02 AM ET (US)
SC Joe, I know you asked specifically for experience with the 90 HP Evinrude E-Tec, and on that note perhaps it is worth noting that the 75 HP E-Tec is at many forums (for example the E-Tec owners forum) claimed to be very close in performance to the 90 HP, as strange as it may seem. Anyway, if you do want an E-Tec and someone offers you a good deal on a 75 HP unit, perhaps you should also consider that option?
As for advice given on other options than a Mercury or an Evinrude; do not ignore the new 90 HP from Suzuki. Clearly an improvement over the not-at-all-bad previous Suzuki 90 HP, it should give the 90 HP Honda a real fight regarding any aspect, and I’m very sure it beats the 90 HP Yamaha with a good margin.
Just my two cents, Seb.
Tohsgib posted 03-06-2009 11:38 AM ET (US)
Suzuki now has a 100hp according to Ed's inventory at $6750.
Perry posted 03-06-2009 11:43 AM ET (US)
The DF100 is 416 lbs. I would rather have the lighter 90 HP motor.
SC Joe posted 03-06-2009 02:03 PM ET (US)
GSH-
It's all pretty much academic, but were I going to change motors, it would only be for an E-TEC. I have to admit to being intrigued by the technology and from a maintenance standpoint. I'm sure the engines you and others suggested are great engines, but I wouldn't I'd trade up or down for another 4 stroke and certainly not for an old tech "2 smoke".
The attempted gain here is a weight savings and possible torque gain. And if I gained something by not having to change oil, that would be a plus also (not that it's really a big deal to begin with at least for me).
Besides..the white cowling really matches the boat better :).
I may call another dealer in town to see what kind of prices I am looking at. AFAIK, we have only 2 dealers who sell E-TECs, and one does not stock them and only orders them when requested. I'm certainly not getting any "deals" there. I'll report back when I hear some quotes.
L H G posted 03-06-2009 03:51 PM ET (US)
If you're looking for more speed and torque over that 90 HP Merc, go for the 115 E-Tec or 115 Optimax. Either would be a great engine on 170. Don't waste your time shopping for a 90 Opti or E-tec.
Feejer posted 03-06-2009 06:35 PM ET (US)
Joe
I'm with you 100%. I would love to have a White 150 E-Tec on back of the new Dauntless. I know 3 guys who have them and love them. The maintenance is a dream. With that said, I am pretty excited about the Verado with the smartcraft and DTS. It would be nice to loose a 100lbs off the back. Maybe one day BW will offer us a choice.

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Author	Topic: Engine replacement: Montauk 170
SC Joe	posted 02-26-2009 10:40 PM ET (US) Has anyone changed out the original Mercury FOURSTROKE for an E-TEC of the same power on [a Boston Whaler 170 MONTAUK]? What was the result? Was there a noticable difference?
SC Joe	posted 02-26-2009 11:24 PM ET (US) After reading this link: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ratedHP.html , I have calculated the maximum horsepower that can be put on a Montauk 170 to be 142.22. Online I have seen 90 hp to be the maximum hp rated for the Montauk 170, but I have not seen that listed in the boat (Although it cold be and I don't remember it). The only maximum engine size I have seen in the boat is listed as "Maximum engine weight 410 pounds". The Evinrude E-TEC 90, 115, and 130 weigh approximately 320#, 375# and 390# (respectively). Knowing these things, could one put an E-TEC 130 hp on a Montauk 170? Negating my first question..has anyone done this?
swist	posted 02-27-2009 07:02 AM ET (US) It's under a tarp for the winter, but I'm petty sure my Montauk 170's capacity plate says max 90 hp. If that were not the ca4e, there wouldn't have been so many discussions in this forum on the viability/legality of putting a bigger engine on, even though many felt the boat could handle it.
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 02-27-2009 08:59 AM ET (US) Joe - There have been many articles on the subject of maximum horsepower rating of a Montauk 170. I recall several members who have re-powered. I do not recall a specific re-power with an E-TEC. While it is early and I am only on my 3rd cup of coffee, I will say Barney was the first to repower, trading in his Mercury (with Yamaha powerhead) 90 for a 115. This occurred sometime around 2002 or 2003. I think he has sold the boat.
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 02-27-2009 09:07 AM ET (US) Dohhh! it wasn't Barney, but Ray (Tabasco)! See this page for a great article and photos. http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage58.html (Next time I will wait till my 4th cup before posting)
SC Joe	posted 02-27-2009 09:44 AM ET (US) Thanks Casco for that reference. It appears the original owner of Tabasco [was not satisfied] with the carburetor 90-HP Mercury. After owning only fuel-injected engines on my boats for the last five years, that is understandable. I was wondering about it from a weight savings and possible torque gain perspective. As for the Coast Guard tag, I'll have to look at the one in my boat to see what it says. I wonder of there is any noticeable power or "out of the hole" increase with an E-TEC 90 HP engine over the Mercury 90 HP FOURSTROKE, just due to the 79-lbs in weight savings? In reality, however, that really equals the weight of a large trolling motor battery. Has anyone done a four stroke to E-TEC conversion on a similar boat and noticed any real differences? *This all stems from marketing DVD I apprently signed up for at our local boat show a few weeks back. Evinrude DOES have quite a convincing marketing department :). I doubt I'd spend the money necessary to make any changes now to my boat that has 15 hours on it, but perhaps in a few years...
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 02-27-2009 12:19 PM ET (US) For those that have not been privy to the [problems] with the Mercury 90-HP with Yamaha powerhead, it has been discussed heavily. Due to the small orifices in the carburetors, lack of use and infrequent carburetor cleaning led to clogging. Once owners were educated, the frequency of reported problems dramatically decreased. I don't think the problems with this motor speaks to all carburetor fueled four stroke motors, rather just this one model. The engine stated is not the L4NA "Veraditio" and was rigged on Montauk 170's for only a few years starting in 2002. As for the repower, I recall Ray stating the weight of the 115 was the same as the 90 hp motor.
Tohsgib	posted 02-27-2009 12:54 PM ET (US) When I was repowering my 13' with a used 30-40hp 4 stroke I was looking at all brands. In my research I read that many had problems with the carburated 4 strokes now with the ethanol BS. That ruled out many engines for me and left me with just Mercury, Johnson/Suzuki in the EFI engines. I know that now most 2008 or 2009's are EFI but I was going used. Going EFI also raises the weight but I find a little more weight is better than cleaning carbs every 3 months. I don't use the 13' that often so EFI was important to me...plus it is so smooth and easy to start. Just hope nothing breaks on it. So in a nutshell, the carbed 4 strokes have problems due to ethanol accross the board just like 2 smokes.
WT	posted 02-27-2009 01:54 PM ET (US) I'm guessing it would cost around $2,000 to swap from a used 90 Mercury to a new 90 E-TEC. I'm not sure if any improvements in hole shot would be worth the $2,000. Call your dealer for a ballpark quote, I'd be curious for the quote. One cheaper alternative if you're looking for a better hole shot might be to swap out props for specific activities or uses of your 170 Montauk. Warren
Brian7son	posted 02-27-2009 03:01 PM ET (US) Joe, "The Evinrude E-TEC 90, 115, and 130 weigh approximately 320#, 375# and 390# (respectively). Knowing these things, could one put an E-TEC 130 hp on a Montauk 170?" If I were you and if I did that. I'd buy a 90 E-TEC decal and slap in on the 130 cowling just to try avoid any potential hassles with law enforcement. It's not like the 130 is a huge motor that would make it glaringly obvious that you swapped labels.
SC Joe	posted 02-27-2009 07:27 PM ET (US) >>>I'm guessing it would cost around $2,000 to swap from a used 90 Mercury to a new 90 E-TEC. I'm not sure if any improvements in hole shot would be worth the $2,000. Call your dealer for a ballpark quote, I'd be curious for the quote. One cheaper alternative if you're looking for a better hole shot might be to swap out props for specific activities or uses of your 170 Montauk.<<< That's about how much I thought as well. I actually stopped by my dealer today for something else and although they sell E-TECs, they do not stock any unless someone specifically asks for one. I did not get a chance to ask for a quote. To your other point...the hole shot now isn't really that bad. I was just suckered in by clever marketing. It would have to be VERY good deal to make me really want to do anything.
chuck21401	posted 02-27-2009 08:29 PM ET (US) SC Joe: I have the same boat. What don't you like about the 90 fourstroke? Chuck
SC Joe	posted 02-27-2009 10:13 PM ET (US) The color? :) And...the weight.
frontier	posted 02-28-2009 01:57 AM ET (US) Put on a new Yamaha 90 HP 2-Stroke. 2009 may be the last year it is available. The cheapest, lightest (261#) and the best quality.
L H G	posted 02-28-2009 05:45 PM ET (US) My prediction is that anyone who repowers a 170 Montauk from a Mercury 2-stroke 90 or L4NA 4-stroke Merc 90 (Verado powerhead) to a Yamaha 2-stroke 90 or E-tec 90 will be hugely disappointed. The current Mercury 90 being installed on the 170's is the most powerful 90 you can buy, period. Remember that block can put out up to 200HP with blower. Look at Whaler's published top speed figure of 46 MPH with this engine. Neither the 82HP Yamaha 90 or E-tec 90's will do nothing close to that speed, probably more like 40 at best. Several owners here with Yamaha and E-tec 90's on classic Montauks report top speeds of only 42 MPH, and the newer 170's are much heavier. All that being said, I would sure like to see someone re-power a 170 Montauk with an E-tec 90 and tell us how it does on both fuel economy and top speed, before he shoots himself, that is!
SC Joe	posted 03-04-2009 10:21 PM ET (US) According to Jimh's comparison here: [/url]http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/compare90.html[/ur/], (and I wish I knew Jimh's arcane chosen HTML here for italics)theoretically, the E-TEC should be a better before...without even factoring the weight difference.
Tohsgib	posted 03-04-2009 11:17 PM ET (US) I would love to see a 170 doing 46mph with a 90hp.....show me please. My 19 Revenge at 250lbs more and a 140hp would only do 43ish.
WT	posted 03-05-2009 02:18 AM ET (US) I'd bet that a new 170 Montauk with the motor moved up 2 holes from stock could hit 46 mph. My heavy 170 Montauk can hit 44 mph and my AV plate isn't completely out of the water while on plane. http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/005235.html My experience is that the Mercury ELPT FourStroke (Veradito) is a lot stronger than my old Mercury/Yamaha carbureated 90 4 stroke. Warren
nemored	posted 03-05-2009 07:17 AM ET (US) Get the new Honda 90hp. It is by far the best motor out there.
SC Joe	posted 03-05-2009 11:00 AM ET (US) With less than 15 hours on my '08 170 with 90 Merc, I got 44 mph out of it. I feel certain given a little more break in time, the right waves and no wind, I could get another mile an hour or two from it.
GSH	posted 03-06-2009 01:02 AM ET (US) SC Joe, I know you asked specifically for experience with the 90 HP Evinrude E-Tec, and on that note perhaps it is worth noting that the 75 HP E-Tec is at many forums (for example the E-Tec owners forum) claimed to be very close in performance to the 90 HP, as strange as it may seem. Anyway, if you do want an E-Tec and someone offers you a good deal on a 75 HP unit, perhaps you should also consider that option? As for advice given on other options than a Mercury or an Evinrude; do not ignore the new 90 HP from Suzuki. Clearly an improvement over the not-at-all-bad previous Suzuki 90 HP, it should give the 90 HP Honda a real fight regarding any aspect, and I’m very sure it beats the 90 HP Yamaha with a good margin. Just my two cents, Seb.
Tohsgib	posted 03-06-2009 11:38 AM ET (US) Suzuki now has a 100hp according to Ed's inventory at $6750.
Perry	posted 03-06-2009 11:43 AM ET (US) The DF100 is 416 lbs. I would rather have the lighter 90 HP motor.
SC Joe	posted 03-06-2009 02:03 PM ET (US) GSH- It's all pretty much academic, but were I going to change motors, it would only be for an E-TEC. I have to admit to being intrigued by the technology and from a maintenance standpoint. I'm sure the engines you and others suggested are great engines, but I wouldn't I'd trade up or down for another 4 stroke and certainly not for an old tech "2 smoke". The attempted gain here is a weight savings and possible torque gain. And if I gained something by not having to change oil, that would be a plus also (not that it's really a big deal to begin with at least for me). Besides..the white cowling really matches the boat better :). I may call another dealer in town to see what kind of prices I am looking at. AFAIK, we have only 2 dealers who sell E-TECs, and one does not stock them and only orders them when requested. I'm certainly not getting any "deals" there. I'll report back when I hear some quotes.
L H G	posted 03-06-2009 03:51 PM ET (US) If you're looking for more speed and torque over that 90 HP Merc, go for the 115 E-Tec or 115 Optimax. Either would be a great engine on 170. Don't waste your time shopping for a 90 Opti or E-tec.
Feejer	posted 03-06-2009 06:35 PM ET (US) Joe I'm with you 100%. I would love to have a White 150 E-Tec on back of the new Dauntless. I know 3 guys who have them and love them. The maintenance is a dream. With that said, I am pretty excited about the Verado with the smartcraft and DTS. It would be nice to loose a 100lbs off the back. Maybe one day BW will offer us a choice.