MONTAUK 17: RPS or Leaning Post

[ddqarch]

I have a 1984 Montauk 17 which has the original convertible seat [perhaps means the classic Reversible Pilot Seat often mentioned by the acronym RPS]. I find the seat to be much too low and never use the convertible option to face aft.

I have always mounted simple leaning posts in my boats, as I find that the most comfortable position, especially underway. However, I don't want to ruin the beauty of the boat. I have looked for classic Montauk's with a simple leaning post and can't find a single image of one, so I suspect this may be a taboo move. I have a stainless steel 20 gallon fuel tank which I would keep in its current location under the seat (or future leaning post). I would love to find a leaning post made for these boats so that I could use the same mounting holes as the original seat, but I suspect that is unrealistic. Give me your opinion.

[Jefecinco]

Before changing your seating arrangement try the intermediate position of the backrest. I don't know about a Montauk 17 seat but on both my Dauntless 16 and 190 Montauk that position made a very nice leaning post.

[MarkCz]

If you can find a leaning post with the legs about the same distance apart as the original Z legs of the reversible pilot seat you may be able to have a welder fabricate and weld an aluminum plate as a base for the new leaning post. That can be bolted to the floor using the same holes that the Z legs used if you use the old reversible pilot seat as a template to locate and drill the new holes through the aluminum plate for mounting. I have no idea what leaning post would be the best fit.

I suspect [removing an RPS and installing a leaning post] may be a taboo move.

I don't think the conversion [to a leaning post on a MONTAUK from a Reversible Pilot Seat] would be taboo if the present RPS is not working for you.

See:

https://www.google.com/search?vsrid=CPu ... F4M&ictx=2

[jimh]

I find the [seat height of RPS] to be much too low...

You are not alone. Many owners of an RPS that are six-feet tall or taller have raised the height of the RPS. The method is very simple: a wooden base is placed between the deck and the Z-legs.

I will list a few archived discussions that are on the topic of raising the RPS:

Here is a fairly recent discussion (from 2018) that has two very nice illustrations of owner-built custom wood bases:

Raising the RPS...again
https://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3268

Then an older thread from 2006:

Raising the RPS Revisited
https://www.continuouswave.com/ubb/Foru ... 09991.html

And an even older 2004 thread

Re-designing the Reversible Pilot Seat (RPS)
https://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/006524.html

Then there is a good thread from 2024 that reveals the REASON that the RPS seat height was a bit low for pilots who were six-feet or taller:

RPS Seat Height
https://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5854

I suspect [removing an RPS and installing a leaning post] may be a taboo move.

Replacing an RPS with a leaning post has certainly been done. For example, the well-photographed OUTRE has that change of seating.

[ddqarch]

Thanks so much for all this great information; it is really helpful. I plan on making roughly three-inch-high risers this weekend. I will probably use Ipe wood because I have a lot of it lying around. Ipe wood is certainly heavy, but the risers are small enough I don't think it will add too much weight.

[ddqarch]

[My construction of wooden risers to increase the height of a Reversible Pilot Seat on my MONTAUK 17] came out well.

Fig. 1. A wooden riser used under the Z-legs of a Reverisble Pilot Seat to increase the seat height.

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Fig. 2 Another view of the riser.

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I used Sapele wood I had on hand. I soaked the wood with penetration epoxy. [When the epoxy was cured I then applied] two coats of varnish. I need to clean up the Dolphinite [visible in Figures 1 and 2] that squeezed out at the deck.

The total increase in height of 3-1/4-inch has made the seat height much more comfortable.

[jimh]

Q1: as seen in Figures 1 and 2, how is the new wooden riser fastened to the deck of the MONTAUK 17?

Q2: what is Dolphinite?

[ddqarch]

Q1: as seen in Figures 1 and 2, how is the new wooden riser fastened to the deck of the MONTAUK 17?

I replaced the original #14 x 3-inch stainless steel screws with #14 x 6-inch stainless steel screws. They go from the top of the seat brackets, down through the new wood risers, and into the hull using the original screw holes.

Q2: what is Dolphinite?

I bedded the bottoms of the new wood brackets and the bottom of the original seat bracket in Dolphinite bedding compound.

[MarkCz]

Your home-made risers look very nice.

Please post a picture [that includes in the frame the entire] reversible pilot seat.

And congratulations on the nice finish on the wood.

[jimh]

...Dolphinite bedding compound.

Thanks for further information on Dophinite. Apparently it is a trade name for a product sold by Pettit under the branding Dolfinite 2005N Natural Bedding Compound.

I had never encountered that particular product before your mention of it. It is described as "a traditional, heavy-bodied marine bedding and sealing compound. It creates a flexible, waterproof seal on wood, fiberglass, and metal joints, and is well-loved in boat restoration for its non-hardening formula that allows for hardware removal later." (Defender Marine website)

But it seems very expensive, as a 1-quart can is $80 at a discount retailer. Perhaps that rather high cost was part of the reason it has never been mentioned before as a sealant for use with Boston Whaler boats.

In your illustrations, the Dolphinite looks like it has an orange color.

Q3: what is the actual color of PETTIT Dolphinite bedding compound?

I am curious about the color of Dolphinite as it seems to contrast with the more typical white or almond color used as sealants when the surrounding surface is a tan gel coat color like Desert Tan or Outrage Gray.

[ddqarch]

Thanks for the kind words about the risers. I am including a picture including the whole seat as per request.

Fig. 3. Reversible Pilot Seat

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Fig. 4. Reversible Pilot Seat with very unusual method of retaining metal fuel tank in place.

IMG_3049.jpg (122.19 KiB) Viewed 1130 times

Pettit-brand Dolphinite Natural Bedding Compound
I really like the Dolphinite product, but it is an almond color which is a drawback. I'm not sure if it is available in white or not, but that would be much better.

I am working off a collection of old pint-size containers I accumulated over the years. To clean off any overage is a pain, as you can see in Figures 1 and 2. Supposedly mineral spirits cleans off Dolphinite bedding compound, but that "cleaning off" takes some work in my experience.

[jimh]

Based on Figure 4, you need to apply your woodworking skills to produce a better method of securing that metal fuel tank in place.

[ddqarch]

Based on Figure 4, you need to apply your woodworking skills to produce a better method of securing that metal fuel tank in place.

Agreed! The tank fastening was like that when I bought the boat, and it works, and I am lazy, and so I haven't gotten around to making it right yet. But your comment may prompt me to get on it.

[jimh]

A proven method for holding down and in place an on-deck fuel tank is to use straps that pass through Footman's Loops.

For example:
https://replacementboatparts.com/products/2-stainless-steel-footmans-loop

For a more woodworking approach, make some wooden low-profile retaining corners or "cleats" (and that is "cleat" not in the sense of a horn cleat used for making fast a line. but in the wood construction sense of a strip or block of wood fastened to a surface as a mounting point or retainer, such as "cooler cleats"). Generally the weight of the tank and the fuel inside the tank will tend to keep it held down to the deck, you just mostly have to constrain its tendency to slide on the deck surface. Using a rubber mat under the tank will also help to keep it in place. However, wet rubber and aluminum or steel don't go well together/

[ddqarch]

Figures 5 and 6 below show my attempt to improve fuel tank mounting.

Fig. 5. A rubber cleat.

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Fig. 6. Tank held in place by rubber cleat.

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I made cleats out of leftover rubber strips I had on hand. I cut them to roughly 2-inches x 3-inches, and made a lip to keep the tank from sliding aft.

I adhered the cleats to the deck with 3M4200, because I did not want any additional penetrations in the deckl. I don't have much experience with 3M4200, and I do not know how strong the bond between rubber and fiberglass will be. The front three-quarters of the tank is sitting on DryDek mats that extends to the center console, so the aft side cleats help to keep the tank at an even deck level.

ASIDE: the rope remains in place until the 3M4200 fully cures.

[jimh]

We now in this thread have five photographs that show the home-made wooden risers that increase the height of the RPS seat. These risers thus have the distinction of being the most photographed wooden risers seen on this website that raise the height of an RPS in any one thread. However, my vote for best designs still goes to Jerry [Jechura] on SPOUTER and for the initial inspiration of using wooden risers to raise the seat, I think that belongs to Larry (LHG) on WHALE LURE.

[ddqarch]

I was hoping for feedback on the cleats.

You had mentioned earlier that rubber and metal in contact can sometimes cause problems.

Q3; what is the adhesive strength of 3M 4200 for this application?

Thanks for all the previous feedback.

[jimh]

I was hoping for feedback on the cleats.

I think you will be the first to know how your rubber cleats will work out in the long run. I don't have any basis from my own experience to offer advice. It does seem like a novel solution.

You had mentioned earlier that rubber and metal in contact can sometimes cause problems.

The continuing presence of water held in a rubber spacer that touches the aluminum metal of a fuel tank when the fuel tank is in a closed-off cavity has been suspected to cause pits and erosion in the aluminum. The rubber cleats you have are going to be continually exposed to air so they should dry out rapidly if they get wet.

Q3; what is the adhesive strength of 3M4200 for this application?

I think you will be the first to know. I don't have any basis from my own experience to offer an opinion. About all I can say about 3M4200 is that it is supposedly less permanent than 3M5200.