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Author Topic:   Fuel Hose Connection To On-Deck Fuel Tanks

frontier posted 05-07-2010 09:44 AM ET (US)
Is there a reason most larger on-deck fuel tanks have a removable hose fitting? [Is there a] USCG requirement [that the fuel hose connection to an on-deck fuel tank be via a quick-disconnect fitting]? Why not [use] just a straight barbed fitting with a hose clamp?
Fishmore posted 05-07-2010 11:00 AM ET (US)
It was explained to me that [use of a quick-disconnect fitting for attachment of the fuel hose to an on-deck fue tank is done] so that if you have a fire onboard you can easily jettison your fuel tank to avoid an explosion. The quick connect would not allow the tank to leak fuel in to the water. However since the vent is open I would assume that some fuel would still get in to the water.
contender posted 05-07-2010 08:04 PM ET (US)
[On-deck] fuel tanks are suppose to be removeable. I guess they would consider a hose clamp on a fuel line to be permanent. Don't know about throwing your tank over board, sounds a little crazy to be doing that. Plus what if you have a 36 gallon fuel tank, full of fuel it would weight over 225 lbs.
jimh posted 05-07-2010 08:58 PM ET (US)
I have seen on-deck fuel tanks for sale that do NOT have any sort of fuel hose fitting included. There is just a threaded inlet on the tank and the fuel hose fitting is to be chosen by the user. I am not aware of any regulation by the United States Coast Guard that requires the fuel hose connection at an on-deck fuel tank be a quick-disconnect fitting. If anyone knows of a federal regulation that requires that the fuel hose connection to an on-deck fuel tank on an outboard-powered boat must be made using a quick-disconnecting fitting, they should give us a pointer to the federal regulation in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR). Most of the CFR sections related to the United States Coast Guard and regulations for boat equipment installation are for boats which are not outboard-powered boats.
frontier posted 05-07-2010 10:37 PM ET (US)
Someone today mentioned there needs to be a quick disconnect or a anti-siphon valve of some type to stop the flow just in case the fuel line gets severed.
Makes sense.
number9 posted 05-08-2010 06:27 AM ET (US)
Looking at a couple sites including the USCG's after reading this. One site mentioned a quick disconnect as being required to qualify as a portable tank, saying by definition it's removable without the use of tools. Could not find any regulations to back that up. Then I thought about the tank mounting brackets Moeller sells that would require tools for tank removal for their topside tanks.
From what I've read in the past CFRs on marine fuel systems basically are non-existent for and exempt OB power from the fuel regulations. Permanently mounted tanks, compartments that hold them and portable tanks are supposed to comply with the ventilation CFRs.
There's an advantage to the boat owner if the fuel line is long and loose enough to attach to a spare or smaller portable tank onboard. Just looked at a new 3 gallon portable Mercury tank with hose and has no quick disconnect at the tank.
Tom W Clark posted 05-08-2010 11:24 AM ET (US)
On deck tanks that are portable have quick disconnect fittings so you can disconnect the fuel hose to remove the tank from the boat. Where's the mystery?
On deck tanks that are meant to be permanently mounted do not have quick disconnect fittings, they have a hose barb.
Many fuel tanks do not come with any fitting. They are threaded to accept whatever fitting you choose to use to suit your needs.
frontier posted 05-08-2010 12:51 PM ET (US)
Just looking in the Moeller catalog.
They do make a hose barb fitting with the anti-syphon feature.
Under anti-siphon valves it says:
"Anti-siphon valves are required by Federal law and the USCG on all permanent fuel tank installations."
So I guess the question remains: is a mounted topside fuel tank, say 15-26 gallons like many of our Whalers, considered a 'permanent fuel tank installation'?
It just seems like common sense, for safety reasons, to have either a quick disconnect or an anti-syphon system.
Fishmore posted 05-08-2010 01:51 PM ET (US)
My information on the reason for the use of a quick disconnect fuel fitting came from a USCG Auxiliary safety inspector. He did not say it was required only recommended. My 20 gallon above deck fuel tank is mounted to the deck using stainless steel footman loops and nylon straps so it is removable without tools. However, I doubt that I would take the time and try to jettison the tank if I had a fire onboard.
GreatBayNH posted 05-08-2010 05:03 PM ET (US)
RE: Portable vs. Permanent Fuel Tanks
Per United States Coast Guard Auxiliary "Boating Skills & Seamanship" Core Course -Twelfth Edition (second printing).
Chapter 2 "Equipment For Your Boat"
Page 2-5 (second to last paragraph)
"Gasoline tanks with capacities less than seven gallons may be called "portable". Tanks greater than seven gallons may sometimes be called "portable", but the Coast Guard considers them to be permanent tanks and requires that they be permanently secured before a boat can be awarded its safty decal."
Tom W Clark posted 05-08-2010 10:12 PM ET (US)
A quick disconnect fitting is very handy for making a quick disconnection of a fuel line, that is all. It will not stop fuel flow in the event a fuel line is punctured or severed; it only stops fuel flow is it is actually removed completely from its fitting and the fuel hose is still intact.
In fact, quick disconnect fittings often are a source of fuel leakage, especially during the connection and disconnection process and even more so if there is pressure in the portable tank.
For a tank that I did not regularly remove from the boat, I would prefer a secure permanent hose attachment on the barbed fitting on the tank; it would be safer.
A quick disconnect fitting can also be a source of an air leak which can be deadly to a two stoke outboard motor. Been there, done that.
The boating requirements of federal law and the requirements of the CG Auxiliary for a safety decal are two significantly different things.
jimh posted 05-09-2010 12:14 PM ET (US)
In the archives is a related discussion about the definition of a portable fuel tank, what the maximum capacity of the tank can be, and what are recommended practices:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/013990.html

However, by the end of that rather long and thorough investigation, no federal regulations were cited regarding on-deck fuel tanks and any special requirements for them or the fuel hose connection.
The Underwriter's Laboratory--not a government regulatory agency--apparently has some recommendations in their UL 1185 standard.
The American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) might have some recommendations, too.
And the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) might have an opinion.
number9 posted 05-09-2010 09:51 PM ET (US)
If a leak were to develop in a tunnel area a disconnect at the tank could quickly stop the siphoning of gas into the tunnel.
USCG Auxiliary has a tendency to make up their own regulations and those may by be interpreted differently by local Flotillas. Not knocking them, they generally provide services to boaters.
NMMA and ABYC have both been marine trade groups that police the members. Many boat builder join($) and are supposed to follow the many rules. Unfortunately the rules are not available to the public with out forking of significant dollars. It makes it difficult to know if a new boat is put together following their recommendations.


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Author	Topic: Fuel Hose Connection To On-Deck Fuel Tanks
frontier	posted 05-07-2010 09:44 AM ET (US) Is there a reason most larger on-deck fuel tanks have a removable hose fitting? [Is there a] USCG requirement [that the fuel hose connection to an on-deck fuel tank be via a quick-disconnect fitting]? Why not [use] just a straight barbed fitting with a hose clamp?
Fishmore	posted 05-07-2010 11:00 AM ET (US) It was explained to me that [use of a quick-disconnect fitting for attachment of the fuel hose to an on-deck fue tank is done] so that if you have a fire onboard you can easily jettison your fuel tank to avoid an explosion. The quick connect would not allow the tank to leak fuel in to the water. However since the vent is open I would assume that some fuel would still get in to the water.
contender	posted 05-07-2010 08:04 PM ET (US) [On-deck] fuel tanks are suppose to be removeable. I guess they would consider a hose clamp on a fuel line to be permanent. Don't know about throwing your tank over board, sounds a little crazy to be doing that. Plus what if you have a 36 gallon fuel tank, full of fuel it would weight over 225 lbs.
jimh	posted 05-07-2010 08:58 PM ET (US) I have seen on-deck fuel tanks for sale that do NOT have any sort of fuel hose fitting included. There is just a threaded inlet on the tank and the fuel hose fitting is to be chosen by the user. I am not aware of any regulation by the United States Coast Guard that requires the fuel hose connection at an on-deck fuel tank be a quick-disconnect fitting. If anyone knows of a federal regulation that requires that the fuel hose connection to an on-deck fuel tank on an outboard-powered boat must be made using a quick-disconnecting fitting, they should give us a pointer to the federal regulation in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR). Most of the CFR sections related to the United States Coast Guard and regulations for boat equipment installation are for boats which are not outboard-powered boats.
frontier	posted 05-07-2010 10:37 PM ET (US) Someone today mentioned there needs to be a quick disconnect or a anti-siphon valve of some type to stop the flow just in case the fuel line gets severed. Makes sense.
number9	posted 05-08-2010 06:27 AM ET (US) Looking at a couple sites including the USCG's after reading this. One site mentioned a quick disconnect as being required to qualify as a portable tank, saying by definition it's removable without the use of tools. Could not find any regulations to back that up. Then I thought about the tank mounting brackets Moeller sells that would require tools for tank removal for their topside tanks. From what I've read in the past CFRs on marine fuel systems basically are non-existent for and exempt OB power from the fuel regulations. Permanently mounted tanks, compartments that hold them and portable tanks are supposed to comply with the ventilation CFRs. There's an advantage to the boat owner if the fuel line is long and loose enough to attach to a spare or smaller portable tank onboard. Just looked at a new 3 gallon portable Mercury tank with hose and has no quick disconnect at the tank.
Tom W Clark	posted 05-08-2010 11:24 AM ET (US) On deck tanks that are portable have quick disconnect fittings so you can disconnect the fuel hose to remove the tank from the boat. Where's the mystery? On deck tanks that are meant to be permanently mounted do not have quick disconnect fittings, they have a hose barb. Many fuel tanks do not come with any fitting. They are threaded to accept whatever fitting you choose to use to suit your needs.
frontier	posted 05-08-2010 12:51 PM ET (US) Just looking in the Moeller catalog. They do make a hose barb fitting with the anti-syphon feature. Under anti-siphon valves it says: "Anti-siphon valves are required by Federal law and the USCG on all permanent fuel tank installations." So I guess the question remains: is a mounted topside fuel tank, say 15-26 gallons like many of our Whalers, considered a 'permanent fuel tank installation'? It just seems like common sense, for safety reasons, to have either a quick disconnect or an anti-syphon system.
Fishmore	posted 05-08-2010 01:51 PM ET (US) My information on the reason for the use of a quick disconnect fuel fitting came from a USCG Auxiliary safety inspector. He did not say it was required only recommended. My 20 gallon above deck fuel tank is mounted to the deck using stainless steel footman loops and nylon straps so it is removable without tools. However, I doubt that I would take the time and try to jettison the tank if I had a fire onboard.
GreatBayNH	posted 05-08-2010 05:03 PM ET (US) RE: Portable vs. Permanent Fuel Tanks Per United States Coast Guard Auxiliary "Boating Skills & Seamanship" Core Course -Twelfth Edition (second printing). Chapter 2 "Equipment For Your Boat" Page 2-5 (second to last paragraph) "Gasoline tanks with capacities less than seven gallons may be called "portable". Tanks greater than seven gallons may sometimes be called "portable", but the Coast Guard considers them to be permanent tanks and requires that they be permanently secured before a boat can be awarded its safty decal."
Tom W Clark	posted 05-08-2010 10:12 PM ET (US) A quick disconnect fitting is very handy for making a quick disconnection of a fuel line, that is all. It will not stop fuel flow in the event a fuel line is punctured or severed; it only stops fuel flow is it is actually removed completely from its fitting and the fuel hose is still intact. In fact, quick disconnect fittings often are a source of fuel leakage, especially during the connection and disconnection process and even more so if there is pressure in the portable tank. For a tank that I did not regularly remove from the boat, I would prefer a secure permanent hose attachment on the barbed fitting on the tank; it would be safer. A quick disconnect fitting can also be a source of an air leak which can be deadly to a two stoke outboard motor. Been there, done that. The boating requirements of federal law and the requirements of the CG Auxiliary for a safety decal are two significantly different things.
jimh	posted 05-09-2010 12:14 PM ET (US) In the archives is a related discussion about the definition of a portable fuel tank, what the maximum capacity of the tank can be, and what are recommended practices: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/013990.html However, by the end of that rather long and thorough investigation, no federal regulations were cited regarding on-deck fuel tanks and any special requirements for them or the fuel hose connection. The Underwriter's Laboratory--not a government regulatory agency--apparently has some recommendations in their UL 1185 standard. The American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) might have some recommendations, too. And the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) might have an opinion.
number9	posted 05-09-2010 09:51 PM ET (US) If a leak were to develop in a tunnel area a disconnect at the tank could quickly stop the siphoning of gas into the tunnel. USCG Auxiliary has a tendency to make up their own regulations and those may by be interpreted differently by local Flotillas. Not knocking them, they generally provide services to boaters. NMMA and ABYC have both been marine trade groups that police the members. Many boat builder join($) and are supposed to follow the many rules. Unfortunately the rules are not available to the public with out forking of significant dollars. It makes it difficult to know if a new boat is put together following their recommendations.