Forum: WHALER
  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
  Kicker/Trolling Motor

Post New Topic  Post Reply
search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   Kicker/Trolling Motor
thekidd posted 08-20-2004 02:46 PM ET (US)   Profile for thekidd   Send Email to thekidd  
I am about to add a kicker to my Outrage 19 II and am in search of opinions, as they are always full of good info. in this forum. I need the kicker primarily for safety as a back-up and also for trolling halibut as I am tired of dragging buckets (and tired of buying them when I forget they are tied on, I do get them before they sink)...to slow me down.
I am thinking an 8-10 HP 4 stroke would do it. I have seen the various mounts and have an idea as to what appeals to me, one that lowers and raises off the rear of the transom.
A few questions. Am I wise to keep it as manual steering and/or will the 150 yamaha I have steer the boat while the kicker is running?
I will eventually have a local outboard mechanic (trusted) do the work, but thought I would ask first.
Also, I am planning on replacing my 2-stroke within the near future with a 4 -stroke. Should I plan the kicker purchase (ie brand & HP) in conjunction with a future engine?

Thanks again for the help.

JMARTIN posted 08-20-2004 03:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for JMARTIN  Send Email to JMARTIN     
The hi thrust 8 to 10 hp 4 strokes are plenty for trolling. Do not have any info on how they work to get you back in if the main engine goes down. I would assume they would be fine. If you are going 4-stroke, I would go all 4 stroke and run off the same tank. You can have limited success using the main engine as a rudder when you are on the kicker but the wind, current can be too much at times. I have a "steering arm?" that I connect from the main engine to the kicker and then I can use the wheel to steer the main engine which then turns the kicker. Works well, John
Joe Kriz posted 08-20-2004 06:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Joe Kriz  Send Email to Joe Kriz     
thekidd,

I would NOT suggest a movable bracket (one that lowers or raises).

I would suggest a solid bracket like Dick used to mount his kicker on a Montauk.
http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=000028

Because you can't mount a kicker directly on the transom, same as the newer Montauks, the solid mount is the way I would choose as the other brackets are a real pain in the neck...

8hp is plenty for an Outrage 18/19
www.sisqtel.net/~jkriz/Outrage/outrage.html

Mine is mounted directly on the transom because of the full transom notch.
The starboard side is preferred but because I already had a swim platform mounted there, I had to mount the kicker on the Port side. I have not experienced any major problems with ride or handleing. I do have One battery in the Starboard side of the splashwell along with the VRO tank mounted in another battery box.

I also have an OMC Dual Binnacle engine control to control both the main engine and the kicker from the helm. I do not have electric start as it add weight to the transom. My setup works great for me when trolling slow for Salmon or Trout.

elaelap posted 08-20-2004 09:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
I agree that a fixed bracket is the way to go if you can't mount your kicker on the transom. I've mashed fingers and screwed up my back enough over the years in sailboats raising and lowering kickers on moveable brackets to truly hate the damn things, plus they rattle and have many nasty little parts to rust, corrode and jam. I hung an old 6 hp Johnson Seahorse off my last sailboat on the transom of my Katama and it worked okay, but I never hooked it up to the main motor with a "steering arm" like the one John recommends. When I bought my Outrage 18 one of the first things I did was remove the sliding bracket, fill the holes, throw away the bracket (not really...I use it for the only thing it's good for--hanging my inflatable's little outboard on the wall of my garage), and re-mount the 8 hp Yamaha kicker that came with my OR 18 directly on the transom.

Recently, on the advice of CW members andygere and Joe Kriz, I bought a Panther 'Auxillary Motor Steering Kit' in stainless, model 55-2600, for fifty bucks from Cabelas (they also have a galvanized model for about half that price designed for fresh water only). It's a pretty elegant, simple design which hooks up the kicker to the main motor and thus allows the kicker to be steered by the wheel. The thing works when both motors are down, both are up (like while trailering), or when either the kicker or the main motor is down and the other is up. I'm very pleased with the setup so far, but check with others about other brands and designs of steering arms, connecting rods, or whatever ya call 'em. One feature I like about the Panther model is that it pops on and off (and can be adjusted if necessary) in a flash from inside the boat, unlike designs which attach to the aft portion of the motors and are pretty inaccessible from inside the boat, especially at sea.

Tony

Dick posted 08-20-2004 11:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
Joe, If I may I will correct your link to my aux motor mount. What the heck I'll do it anyway.

Static aux motor mount on a 99 Montauk
www.homepage.mac.com/whaler1/PhotoAlbum4.html

Dick

Joe Kriz posted 08-21-2004 12:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Joe Kriz  Send Email to Joe Kriz     
Dick,

I posted the wrong link to a thread that also had the link to your bracket and a discussion on kickers.

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/006908.html

My mistake and thanks...

thekidd posted 08-23-2004 01:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for thekidd  Send Email to thekidd     
Thanks again for taking the time to add input. My next door neighbor has this "arm" on his kicker, but not on a whaler- for shame. Anyways, I was over there doing a little snooping and found enough rust on various parts to make me think that the arm wasn't a good alternative. Then, I went and looked for responses for this post and it only confirmed my decision.
I will mount it on Starboard side as my swim step is on port side already. Because I plan on having the boat a while- or forever; I am looking for a 4-stroke. Are there any preferred ways to run gas to the four stroke now while I am running my main engine as a 2-stroke at the same time? I figure I will just run direct to the tank while the 2-stroke line runs through the oil reservoir like usual.
JMARTIN posted 08-23-2004 02:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for JMARTIN  Send Email to JMARTIN     
Now I am confused. I like my arm, aux. steering kit, what ever it is called. I think it is just like Tony's. I do not like the retracable transom brakets. John
Joe Kriz posted 08-23-2004 02:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for Joe Kriz  Send Email to Joe Kriz     
thekidd,

The Panther Marine Steering arm (aux. motor connecting kit or Tie-Bar) can be purchased in Stainless Steel.

Here is the Stainless version mounted on my Outrage 18. It connects the Main motor to the kicker. It can be connected to each motor using various methods. The directions for connecting the engines together different ways comes with the unit.

http://www.sisqtel.net/~jkriz/Outrage/tie-bar-mounted.jpg

The other arm on the kicker is the one for throttle which also has a "Red" Kill button on the end of the handle. I could take this throttle arm off as I am not using it because I have a Throttle and Shift kit that is connected to my Dual Binnacle. This throttle arm is not in the way so I see no need to remove it. For me, I start the engine manually, then press the "Red" Kill button to stop the engine. This way I do not need another battery on board just to start the kicker remotely. 1 or 2 pulls is all I need to start the kicker and the kicker only weighs 58 lbs. because it is not electric start.

Tom W Clark posted 08-23-2004 02:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
John,

Loose the bracket and clamp your kicker directly to the transom of your V22. You can still make use of the tie bar.

Joe,

It is always nice to see a really ship-shape boat. Nicely done.

A couple suggestions (take them for what the are worth), but on my very similarly rigged Outrage 18 I had a piece of 3/8" fuel hose that was slid over the all-thread of the tie bar. This not only made it look nicer but it prevented the chafe caused by the threads of the bar "sawing" back and forth against the fuel/oil hoses and rigging cables.

You could also invert the ball mount on the kicker so the bar sat lower with perhaps less interference. An stainless steel acorn nut and lock washer could be used in lieu of the nylock for a more finished appearance on the end of the kicker's tiller arm.

On my 9.9 I removed the twist grip throttle arm when I used the dual binnacle mount controls. I simple remounted the kill bottom to the lower part of the powerhead's housing by drilling the appropriate sized hole and buying a remote mount kill button. I think I had it on the port side of the 9.9, but your 8 is a different design so this may not be applicable.

thekidd posted 08-23-2004 03:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for thekidd  Send Email to thekidd     
I should have said "retractable bracket" as opposed to arm. I was not referring to steering arm. Sorry...
thekidd posted 08-23-2004 03:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for thekidd  Send Email to thekidd     
Because I do not have the wide transom as previous years of Outrages, I believe that Dick's setup appears to be the best way to go. Very clean boat by the way.
Joe's photo of the steering arm looks sharp as well, but will I problems mounting the arm with a kicker that will be positioned further back then the 150 Yamaha I have? It appears that the with the bracket and intitial mounting on the exterior of the transom, that the kicker will sit about 4-5 inches further back....
Again, I really appreciate all of the input I am getting. Thanks again guys & gals...
Joe Kriz posted 08-23-2004 04:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for Joe Kriz  Send Email to Joe Kriz     
Tom,

Thanks for the kind words.
When I mounted the tie-bar for the kicker, I had it in mind to have the arm installed below both the main engine and kicker attachment. However, when I had the arm mounted below the bracket on the kicker, I could not raise the kicker into the trailering position as the arm intereferred with the clamp on brackets. So, I had to position it on top of the kicker bracket.

The photo also shows the main engine mounted all the way down. Since the photo I have raised the main engine up 1 hole and now the tie-bar is almost straight across and level to the kicker. Now I can raise of lower the kicker or the main engine independently without having to remove the tie-bar.

thekidd,

The tie-bar arm can be BENT in many ways to accomadate many mounting positions of the kicker. You may be able to bend the tie-bar so it will work when steering the 2 engines together. You will probably have to remove the tie-bar when it is time to raise the kicker back up in the trailering position though. It is very easy to remove the arm via the 2 quick disconnects. Takes about 10 seconds...

JMARTIN posted 08-23-2004 05:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for JMARTIN  Send Email to JMARTIN     
What we have here, is failure to communicate. I do not have a retractable transom bracket, I just do not like them. My kicker is clamped to a piece of wood that is bolted thru the transom. John
rjgorion posted 08-23-2004 07:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for rjgorion  Send Email to rjgorion     
Joe,

I have a question for you. Eventually, I would like to add a kicker to my Outrage as well, but I have seen some kickers mounted on the port side and others mounted on the starboard side. In your earlier post you said that the starboard side is preferred. Is this because of the torque of the engine or proximity to the riggiging channel or some other reason? I'm just curious so that I can do it right when the time comes. Thanks,

Ron

kingfish posted 08-23-2004 08:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
See the following article I just posted on the "Performance" forum about mounting a remote control electric tilt Yamaha T8 Hi-thrust 4-stroke kicker on my Outrage 22: (article ias at the bottom of the thread)

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/002874.html

Joe Kriz posted 08-23-2004 10:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for Joe Kriz  Send Email to Joe Kriz     
rjgorion,

The preferred side is the Starboard side due to torque and weight of the engine. When I am the only one onboard, my boat lists a little to port becuase the engine is on the port side and the pilot is also on the port side when you have the standard center console. Other then that, I have no problems at all. Actually, I don't have any probelms, Period... Most of the time I have more than myself onboard and everything balances out one way or the other.
But here, everyone has to remember, My Kicker weighs only 58 lbs....
The Yamaha T8 weighs much more than this and Onlyawhaler (Sterling) has had problems with the weight of the T8 on the transom of his Outrage 18...

Good point on the rigging tunnel. I am not sure how the rigging would work if the kicker was mounted on the Starboard side. It is very simple to rig the cables when the engine is on the port side and you can make a loop in the throttle/shift cable. I'm not sure it would be that simple if the kicker was mounted on the starboard side.

kingfish,
WOW.... You must have been up all night writing that Thesis on rigging a kicker. Great Job...

Just for the record, kingfish has a 22' so the weight might be a factor with an Outrage 18 as in Sterlings problem......

thekidd posted 08-24-2004 10:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for thekidd  Send Email to thekidd     
Jmartin- Thanks for your input, I realize you do NOT have a retractable bracket. My mistake was to refer to IT as an arm rather then bracket. I will mount my kicker direct to the rear of the transom, again because of everyone's great input (yours included).
I can't help but feel obligated to everyone for being so helpful, thanks again.
JMARTIN posted 08-24-2004 10:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for JMARTIN  Send Email to JMARTIN     
I moved my kicker from the starboard to the port side. My boat listed to starboard before because all of the weight was on the that side, helm station, batteries, oil resivor, and the helmsman. I have an old kicker, pull start, tiller control, seperate 50/1 6 gallon fuel tank. The boat list was better and I thought that I was very clever, untill I used it for the first time. The tiller arm when in the down posistion now hits the side of the transom. I have to run it with the tiller arm up in able to turn to starboard. When deciding on which side to place the kicker, watch the clearance. John
Mazycranza posted 04-06-2009 01:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for Mazycranza  Send Email to Mazycranza     
Hey all,
This is very helpful. I have a 9.9 mounted on an adjustable motor bracket starboard side. I just tried hooking up the Panther dual steering kit...but the kicker is on the adjustable bracket which makes it like 8-10 inches behind my main motor. So the steering rod catches on the fat part of my main when I turn left too far. I know someone said to just bend the bar...but I am looking for more direction. Do I just make a large arcing bend in the bracket? Do I make an S kind of bend. Also any tips on making the bend?

Post New Topic  Post Reply
Hop to:


Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.