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  Repairing Spider Cracks; Restoring Rotted Transom

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Author Topic:   Repairing Spider Cracks; Restoring Rotted Transom
Damat posted 08-09-2009 02:31 AM ET (US)   Profile for Damat  
I recently started fixing up an old [Boston Whaler boat] that has been sitting out in the Florida sun for about four years. I am pretty sure it is a 1966 SPORT 13. We don't have the owner's manual or anything, so that's just going off the serial number and pictures online. I have got tons of questions.

First, the exterior and interior is covered with crazing. I have sanded it down, but should I just sand till it is pretty smooth? Or down to the fiberglass on the whole thing? I have been told by one person to sand it [until] smooth, put a heavy primer on it, and that should fill in the cracks. But [I have] also been told to sand it to the fiberglass, and then either paint it or gelcoat it.

Also, the floor has that nice non-skid pattern to it, but it is also covered in those tiny cracks. I have been told to sand the floor completely down, but I really really do not want to loose that classic Boston Whaler boat floor. Is there a way to keep the pattern? Or, will the cracks get worse and mess up the whole boat?

Also the small holes in the transom were not sealed (and like I said it has been outside for years), and I have been told that the inside of the transom is almost completely rotted. They guy said to cut the top off, scrap all the stuff out and fill it with some kind of putty, or something. So I really dont know what to do with that.

I know this is a lot, but any advice or help you can offer is really greatly appreciated. Thank you!


heres some pictures to get an understanding--

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/ilovehorses321/043.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/ilovehorses321/044.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/ilovehorses321/042.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/ilovehorses321/045.jpg

jimh posted 08-09-2009 08:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
There are many prior discussions addressing remedies for these problems. You may find that using the SEARCH function and locating these prior discussions will provide you with some good information.

It is common on older Boston Whaler boats which have been exposed to the sun and weather without much care that the gel coat finish develops many cracks. Before applying a new top coat to any surface with cracks, you must be certain that the existing surface has been faired and smoothed, and there is no instability or flexing. Gel coat resin can only be applied effectively to a thickness of about 0.020-inch. If built up to a thicker layer it will be too brittle and become prone to cracking. Many older boats with severe cracking are just repainted after the surface has been sanded and faired.

Here is a link to about 20 prior articles on sanding and refinishing gel coat surfaces with cracks:

http://continuouswave.com/cgi-bin/sw.pl?Search=sand+cracks+gel+coat+ refinish

The molded non-skid pattern of the deck will be difficult to maintain if the surface is heavily cracked. There is a concurrent discussion on precisely this topic. Let me give you a hyperlink to it so you can see how this problem was remedied by another restorer:

Non repairable non-skid
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/016824.html

Here is a link to over 200 prior articles which mention repair of non-skid:

http://continuouswave.com/cgi-bin/sw.pl?Search=repair+non-skid

Before tearing out the embedded wood reinforcement in the transom, be certain that it is really rotted. Replacing the wood is a lot of work. The product to which you refer to as "some kind of putty or something" is probably SEACAST. Here is a link to a prior discussion about using SEACAST to repair a transom whose embedded wood was rotted:

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/013580.html

Here is a link to 40 more articles which mention SEACAST:

http://continuouswave.com/cgi-bin/sw.pl?Search=seacast

wayne baker posted 08-09-2009 09:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for wayne baker  Send Email to wayne baker     
You do not have to sand the entire boat to the glass but you will have to get it very close to smooth. You can use a high build primer to help fill the cracks Over the boat but I also suggest a light filler. I like 3M premium. It is pricey but it spreads like peanut butter. Also to get the floor sanded down I found a belt sander is the trick. I know the space you can use it might be limited but the time saving is worth using it all you can.
acseatsri posted 08-09-2009 01:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for acseatsri  Send Email to acseatsri     
I would NOT EVEN TRY to use a belt sander on the non-skid. The time savings will be more than negated by the time it will require to fill all the gouges left behind by the belt sander.
A random orbit sander used with 60 grit premium Norton blue discs will take it off in a few hours with minimal preparation after the non-slip pattern is sanded off. I did my 22 Outrage using this method, followed by 2 coats of Interlux epoxy primer and then 2 coats of Interlux Perfection paint rolled on with a foam roller. The primer, properly thinned, will fill and seal the spider cracks.

For the non-skid surface, I used a mix of 50% Perfection paint and 50% flattening agent and the appropiate amount of Intergrip mixed in the paint. This will give you a texture of approximately 120 grit sandpaper, more than adequate traction.

wayne baker posted 08-09-2009 03:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for wayne baker  Send Email to wayne baker     
belt sanders are used on all types of flat surfaces. Why would using one create gouges? I will admit that there was a short learning curve but I got a very smooth job using mine. I am not saying anyone is wrong just talking about things that worked well for me.

acseatsri posted 08-09-2009 08:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for acseatsri  Send Email to acseatsri     
I agree that belt sanders are for flat surfaces, but there aren't many flat areas on the floor of a 13. And unless you've had a lot of experience using a belt sander, it will even gouge flat areas if you're not extremely careful.

A good random orbit sander will make quick work of it with no gouges, especially with the premium 60 grit Norton blue "Norzon" discs instead of the standard yellow aluminum oxide discs.

wayne baker posted 08-09-2009 08:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for wayne baker  Send Email to wayne baker     
I will say the blue disc's rock. They out last the other disc buy a mile. One of my belt sanders is like a mini sander. It is a porter cable with like a two inch wide belt. That thing is awsome.
Jessielove posted 08-09-2009 09:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jessielove  Send Email to Jessielove     
Sorry, a little late and far down in the thread but here are some clickable links:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/ilovehorses321/043.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/ilovehorses321/044.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/ilovehorses321/042.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/ilovehorses321/045.jpg

Damat posted 08-10-2009 02:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for Damat    
Thanks for all your help so far, but [I--please use the proper spelling of the personal pronoun "I"] think we are going to go with gel coat. [Some directions ] say you need one quart per every 20 square-feet. So [I'm--please spell this two-letter word correctly] assuming that with five quarts [I'll] have enough and maybe a little extra. We are thinking about cutting into [the transom], taking all the rotten stuff out, and filling it with SEACAST. [Seeks reports of] experience with SEACAST. If [it is] not [too] bad of a job, or if we should just take it somewhere.
Russ57 posted 08-10-2009 10:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for Russ57  Send Email to Russ57     
Damat, redoing the whole boat with new gel coat would be a huge job for someone without the right equipment and experience. I am undergoing the same job on a 13' whaler that was given to me. I emailed a few companies for some suggestions and this is what I have decided to do.

Sand the outside of the hull with 60 grit. Get all paint and such off and remove as much crazing as possible. No doubt you will sand through the gel coat in a few places and this will let you know if all the crazing can be sanded out. I couldn't in my case. Fix any places that have holes and look for any "raised spots" where the hull has delaminated. Fix as needed. In my case there were a few places where the glass had brown streaks in it and were rotten. I ground those out and laid in new cloth with epoxy resin. Once all that is done fair out the hull with 3M putty. Don't use bondo!

Once I have all that done I am going to roll a skim coat of epoxy resin over the entire hull. The goal is to prevent the crazed gel coat from alligatoring the new paint. An epoxy company told me that was a sound plan. After that I plan to use Interlux 2000E primer and their VC performance epoxy and polish that out to a gloss white finish. This should end up looking somewhat like gel coat.

I would get a second opinion on the transom. You can tell a lot by tapping on the hull with a plastic tipped hammer. You can hear spots that aren't sound. If you are really in doubt consider drilling a few small holes in various spots in the transom to verify that the plywood inside is truly rotten. Replacing the wood in the transom is no small job and I wouldn't be looking to do it unless necessary.

Keep in mind that the hull was considered unsinkable and suitable as a life boat in an open ocean. If you are just going to use it in fresh water it doesn't need to be 100% by any means.


Russ

modenacart posted 08-10-2009 04:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for modenacart  Send Email to modenacart     
I would make sure the transom is safe. If it fails it is going to be a disaster in fresh or salt water.
acseatsri posted 08-10-2009 07:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for acseatsri  Send Email to acseatsri     
Good luck with the gelcoat. In addition to the prep work BEFORE spraying it, the entire boat will have to be wet sanded in ever finer grits up to 2000 grit and then compounded AFTER spraying, a LOT more work than painting.

If you do decide to paint, the Interlux epoxy primer will fill and seal the cracks if the first coat is thinned out enough. I would use this instead of the epoxy, as it is thick and will probably not penetrate the cracks as well as the thinned-out epoxy paint. My deck looked like yours in some spots, and there is no evidence left of the cracks. And the paint is easy to touch up if you have a scratch or whatever.

Damat posted 08-11-2009 04:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for Damat    
Can you use the epoxy primer paint to fill in the cracks and then gelcoat over it, or would that not work right and make to to thick.

Also the transom, when you stick things like a screw driver or a key in the holes in the transom, you can easily move them around, could that mean its rotted?

goinboatn posted 08-11-2009 04:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for goinboatn  Send Email to goinboatn     
most all repairs will crack again...Another option that keeps the original color -
http://photobucket.com/Line-XSarasota
acseatsri posted 08-11-2009 06:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for acseatsri  Send Email to acseatsri     
I don't know whether the epoxy primer would be affected by the MEK in the gelcoat or not. If I were to try to re-gelcoat it, I would probably opt to sand all the old gelcoat off.

I would do some searches on this site to see what others' experiences and horror stories are, including the gelcoat failing to harden, etc. Even the site's moderator, Jimh, has not had great results with it. And what to do about the non-skid floor pattern?

I think gelcoat is better left to professionals.

Damat posted 08-18-2009 11:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Damat    
well another guy came and looked at it today and he was talking just gelcoating it, no primers or anything.

But I was thinking of putting a 545 primer on it to fill in all those tiny cracks, and then either gelcoating or just painting over that.

Which would be better?

R T M posted 08-19-2009 06:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for R T M    
545 is a very thin epoxy primer. It will not fill any cracks. It is made for adhesion of the top coats. I would sand, sand, sand. If your going to AwlGrip the boat, after it is sanded, prime it with AwlGrip High Build primer, sand, then 545 primer, then light sand then top coat. Remember effort equals results.
I know from experience, if you don`t cover the soft High build primer with 545, you will get chips in the final finish.

rich/Binkie

Russ57 posted 08-19-2009 02:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for Russ57  Send Email to Russ57     
Damat, in general you can always put epxoy over other resins but you can't put other resins over epoxy. So if you want gel coat forget about filling in the gelcoat with anything. The old gel coat will have to come off. This is going to be a big job abd will probably cost more than the boat is worth. It isn't something you can do in your backyard with a roller and paint brush.

What you can do is sand the gel coat down and coat it with an epoxy product to waterproof it and then paint it. This is something you can do yourself. Just pick your products wisely and make sure they are compatable and rated for the intended use. For example awlgrip isn't rated for "below the water line".

Pick your poision, paint or gel coat, but not both. Paint will be easier for you do yourself. Gel coat has the advantage that it can be polished out as it ages and dulls. But as you have seen even gel coat may have to be replaced eventually. It goes without saying that you will have to repaint eventually. You will be surprised just how long a good paint will last though.


Russ

Chesapeake posted 08-20-2009 10:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for Chesapeake  Send Email to Chesapeake     
Russ: Are you certain that awlgrip is not rated for below the waterline?
Russ57 posted 08-21-2009 01:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Russ57  Send Email to Russ57     
Chesapeake, they do make a bottom paint and of course that is rated. Here is a link to their application data. You can see for yourself.

http://www.awlgrip.com/support/literature/Documents/Awlgrip%20NA%20Guide%208pp.pdf

Russ

Damat posted 08-21-2009 10:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for Damat    
Thank you so much to everyone for all your help, it has really helped us alot!

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